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TOPIC: Wincham Land Deal

Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #1

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Thor have paid so all good for the 'Wittoners' who have leant money over the years and will now be paid back.
To those Wittoners like myself who don't lend but give unreservedly and without receipt who have donated and sponsored and supported the club over the years well it's a thank you and you're gettin Jack and the club despite the positive spin are getting LESS than they would from housing (watch out for the positive spin from Chairman Mao:Harris
So in short we haven't got a captive audience of houses around us and we're getting less than we should have!
But we've still got OUR club!
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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #2

Andy Chad wrote: Thor have paid so all good for the 'Wittoners' who have leant money over the years and will now be paid back.
To those Wittoners like myself who don't lend but give unreservedly and without receipt who have donated and sponsored and supported the club over the years well it's a thank you and you're gettin Jack and the club despite the positive spin are getting LESS than they would from housing (watch out for the positive spin from Chairman Mao:Harris
So in short we haven't got a captive audience of houses around us and we're getting less than we should have!
But we've still got OUR club!


But if debt is furnished so that more income is available week by week, month by month for the good of the club and to help all the clubs budgets....I've given of myself and my money over the years without any wish to see a penny piece back, but major former directors loans could be called in at ANY time and destroy us. But forward we go as a sustainable club with our destiny in our own hands. Mark Harris, who I don't know and haven't met, only ever seems to tell the truth to me. One dissapointment over a game I certainly expected us to win easily but we didn't and you post THIS. You are on the front of the "Sons of Albion" book and you need to grow up.
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Witton Albion vs Northwich Victoria 2 years 5 months ago #3

Armchair supporter now but still a shareholder - what have Thor actually purchased ? I guess it must be land but are they not on the other side of the canal?

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Witton Albion vs Northwich Victoria 2 years 5 months ago #4

Thor have purchased land around their factory and including The Roberts scrap yard area, this land was sold by Witton to Roberts about 16 years ago to get us out of Administration and effectively save the club - but it had a sell on clause should it ever be sold for development, this I understood was a legal agreement and the value was fixed and index linked in someway (set up by Mike Worthington )so I dont understand why we would get less than we should ? and further people who have Given money in the past have Given it why would they get or want money back ! people who have lent money on the basis it would be paid back (should we get in a position to do so ) should be paid back again I really dont understand Andys point.
Thor I understand are going to develop storage along the canal on the other side and put offices and a car park on the Roberts land area which should tidy that area up a fair bit, the fact it has been sold to Thor and not for houses is way beyond Wittons control. I do not see how this news reflects badly on the club or on our current Chairman I know some fans do not like the current board I get that ! but to have a go at the club over this unless I am missing something seems churlish- We have landed our long awaited golden egg and surely we should be enjoying this news, and as I understand (from the recent volunteer meeting )we will not waste this money eg we will clear debts, pay of legitimate loans and use the balance on projects to improve the club infrastructure and develop income streams ! again does not sound like the worst plan I have ever seen. Lets not turn a positive into a negative lets just move on UTA
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Witton Albion vs Northwich Victoria 2 years 5 months ago #5

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eligorton wrote: Armchair supporter now but still a shareholder - what have Thor actually purchased ? I guess it must be land but are they not on the other side of the canal?

As far as I am aware it is land that was sold to Roberts scrapyard a number of years ago. My understanding is that there was an agreement in place whereby Witton would receive a substantial payment from any sell on from Roberts. In terms of housing development it would seem that developers have been dragging there feet for a good while in a deal that was looking less and less likely to happen. Witton receive a substantial payment from Thor with whom they now need to firm up a good relationship and the club moves forward. All positive stuff in my opinion. UTA

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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #6

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If I remember correctly from that fans forum (the one with the slideshow :pinch: ) Harris said once this money came through, that (not 100% sure on the names) 3 people who have put money in (I think Worthington was one) will be paid in full what we owe them, and any further investment was going to on the ground and a 3G pitch with floodlights.

But I don't understand how Witton had any say who Roberts' sold the land to? And how we are to blame for the housing development falling through?

I do agree with Chad that we will never hear the truth from the club though.
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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #7

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Thought I'd start this a new topic to satisfy the forum police!

Further to everything that has been written there is a massive issue from this deal which may be overlooked in the euphoria of the club finally having working capital and paying off (quite rightly) its debts, and that is......

The future value of the clubs assets and the book value of the same (i.e. Wincham Park) has just been massively marked down!
The logic for those who think I'm on another planet is that far from being told that we were owning a valuable slug of land in the middle of a housing development with the possible spin offs that would bring (increase footfall, social club revenue etc) we are now potentially going to own an island of land in an industrial site!
The connotations of this are quite simple the future value of any sale of Wincham Park has been halved and the possible future purchasers of the same has been narrowed to those that would wish their business to be next to or influenced by a chemical plant. I have no idea of actual numbers but conservatively it must be hundreds of thousands of pounds if not a million pound.
David at Thor is one of the most impressive people I have met and he's done a fantastic bit of business for Thor here unfortunately and only IMHO it has cost us a small fortune!

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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #8

Well worth pointing that out Andy and it's a valid consideration. My only beef is you seem to be implying this is the club's fault when I don't think we had any influence in what was a deal struck between Thor and Roberts.

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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #9

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Andy Chad wrote: Thought I'd start this a new topic to satisfy the forum police!


You beat me to it Andy! I'll see if I can bring the posts that belong here over to this thread. My personal thoughts on this actual topic will appear later.

Edit : Job done, forum policed successfully mooney
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Last edit: by Mike_T. Reason: Other posts moved to relevant thread.

Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #10

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If you sell a player with a "sell on" clause you cannot dictate to his present employers who they can sell him to and for how much. It appears we had a sell on clause but the housing deal fell through because we could not or would not move. This new deal is, as far as I can tell something we have no control over except to take the money on offer. If it clears debts and leaves us better off then let us be grateful for small mercies. There is nowhere locally for us to go to as far as I can tell and that is probably the REAL problem.
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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #11

More like an " island of land on a chemical site " Andy and all the problems that brings. Thor could not get rid of Vix quick enough, their liability insurance premium rocketed when Vix had the cup run and had bigger crowds.

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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #12

It is not quite like that though is it, Thor plan is to have nice offices/Car park on Roberts land, light storage on the scrub land opposite - not chemical plant or hazardous waste etc and it is only that land involving Thor, all the land behind us up to Warrington road and Bob Davies farm are still in the Wincham plan for housing so we are still in the mix for development IF we ever want to move. ?
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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #13

We sacked Geoff Horsefield instead of selling him with a sell-on, that was bad. We sold that land with a sell-on, that was good. The "truth" is set out in C.J's opening post here, there is nothing else, no "hidden agenda" subterfuge or evil doing.

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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #14

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"Hidden Agenda" and "Subterfuge or Evil Doing" are words I do not recognise in the same breath as "Witton Albion"!!
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I have been retired for 8 years now and I can confirm two things; You cannot work out how you found time to go to work and it is wonderful to be TOTALLY in charge of your life, with the wife's permission of course. Read me in the Our Town magazine.

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Wincham Land Deal 2 years 5 months ago #15

I think we need to get a grip here.

Deals have been done in the past (sale of land on both car parks) to secure the future of the football club These deals were done without any of the current Board being involved. The impact on the resale value of the football club was one of the risks of the deals completed at that time. There was probably no realistic mitigation of those risks that would still have allowed the sale of the land and the football club to survive.

Roll on 15 years and the benefits of one of those deals has been realised - along with the risks of a possible impact on resale values of the remaining land. Thor have built a great business and, as businesses do, will seize opportunities to be the best that they can be.

The good thing is that the board at that time had the foresight to include a resale clause on the land sold that has now been realised and given a huge benefit to the football club. Those who thought it was a bad deal at the time have had 15 YEARS to highlight their concerns and suggest a mitigation. The silence has been deafening. Hindsight is a great attribute that few possess. Whether Thor turn out to be good neighbours only time will tell, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that they won't be and causing antagonism were there isn't any won't help either party.

The club has repaid its debts and is in a great position to move forwards. Grab the the opportunity and move on. What has gone can't be changed and the future is ours to behold.

UTA
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